Uniform: BD and Denison Smock - the best choice?

Make no mistake here. SoF do NOT make the best BD. They however make BD that is delivered quickly, is sturdy and is relatively cheap. It's also relatively accurate, but is by no means perfect.

For the best you need to go to someone like Pegasus or Dickie Knight who will make the BD to measure, charge a lot more and also take a lot longer than the off the peg SoF service can manage.

Having said that, for skirmishing SoF is a good choice.

Personally I'd avoid the SOF stuff. Everyone I know who has bought SOF gear has had problems, poor stitchin, colour fading, and cheap non durable materials. I tend to go to Epic for my kit whenever I can, as thier gear is pretty much the exact opposite of SOF's.

Are you speaking from experience of SOF's denisons and BDs, Ghost?

I ask because people often recommend the SOF denisons...

Nope, more going on the reports from people I know. All uniforms bought from SOF have been shoddy, with the aforementioned problems being the main concerns. I expect some folk are happy enough with them, but whether they have been lucky, or the folk I know have been unlucky, I cannot say. I simply wouldn't take the chance, as they are usually quite expensive, and I'd rather go to those I know to be value for money.

Look here for the debate about whether or not the Epic Denisons are the same as the SOF ones, but £50 more expensive:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8393&start=0

I've been buying bits from SoF for over 10 years. It's always a curates egg. Much better to buy at a show so you can see what you are buying.
The original BD they sold was a bit ginger and fluffy but that was sold out years ago. The current stuff is OK, as mentioned, not perfect but ok. Their british 'wool' shirts are pants.
There were some problems with the last run of K&C denisons but they are all gone and the Rangercamp model they sell now seems to hold up quite well.
One trick is to know what you are buying. They have plenty of look a like kit, if you dont know what you are buying it is simple to get the wrong stuff. Their job is to shift boxes out the door, it's yours to know what you are buying.
I dont think there are many dealers who dont have some iffy or just plain wrong stuff in their lists. Again they sell stuff and are not experts on the details of your impression or anyone else's. The majority dont spec their own stuff, just buy it in from China etc. They are buying what is available, RAUnderwood and SoF do spec their own product to a greater or lesser degree as does Morigi the insignia guy. SoF buy in a lot, their German and American kit can be bought at a number of dealers. Epic certainly just buy in. There is a lot of Sturm product on both sites but I suspect SoF are starting to sell Chens German wools? Talk of Epic selling superior product to SoF or visa versa is largely redundant as much of what they sell is the same.

Specifically, going back to the poster's interest in Denison and British battle dress, the Denison SoF sells is made by Rangercamp and the wool BD is made by What Price Glory - they are not made by or for SoF. Both, despite Ghost's generalisation, are perfectly well made, reasonably accurate, practical and serviceable garments - lots of us have the kit and are happy with it and I don't have any problem recommending either BDs or Denison.

@Ghost MacRoth:
Are we talking British gear in particular or SOF gear in general?

In general.

despite Ghost's generalisation,

That's why I did say...

Nope, more going on the reports from people I know.

and...

I expect some folk are happy enough with them, but whether they have been lucky, or the folk I know have been unlucky, I cannot say.

Although I have bought a few items off them myself which have been crap. But hey, each to thier own.

Yes, some SoF kit is crap - the current wool BD and Denisons aren't - first hand experience. Much What Price Glory battledress in evidence today in North Wales - no wardrobe malfunctions as far as I know, stood up to vicious gorse shrubbery, gooey sheep poo and airsofter abuse. Looked great on the troops too (apart from sheep poo)! I'm perfectly content to wear the BDs and Denisons for conventional reenacting as well.

The wool BD garments from SoF have the What Price Glory label in them still so definitely WPG stock! (As are some other things too - they have in the past cut out labels but they don't seem to bother now.)

If you have an allergy to buying kit from SoF then go ahead and buy BD from WPG in the States or Denison from Epic and pay the premiums! I'm not sure how the exchange rates work out at the moment but taking into account import fees I'm pretty sure it is more expensive to import than pop an order to SoF at the moment. Better still, buy your SoF kit at a show where you can both try for size AND do a bit of negotiating on price - I got a nice discount at War and Peace last year.

the only problem i have had with SOF BD is the crazy sizing...... i ordered mine to fit( i.e. the same size i take in a jacket/blazer) and it was massive.. had to spend £15 having the sleeves shortened and the chest taken in...but i still like it, and it looks good. and its quite thick material, very hard wearing. in contrast the dickie knight set of BD i have seems thinner.

Yes, I forgot you were in Denmark JJ! WPG have many sizes of jacket and trousers whereas SoF stock a more limited range that seems to have, quite sensibly, less of the more generous sizes.

I don't think slim and fairly tall constitutes an odd sizing though so you will find something of the right size. Denisons will be a doddle of course.

The wool BD garments from SoF have the What Price Glory label in them still so definitely WPG stock! (As are some other things too - they have in the past cut out labels but they don't seem to bother now.)

My BD trousers have an SOF label...
Being large, though, they may be older stock.

Get one not so slim and then take it to the tailor.

If you really are concerned then buy made to measure from pegasus or others...

WPG do stock long sizes of jacket. But I'd say if you are ordering from SoF then give them your sizes and ask for their advice. I guess sleeve length would be the most critical since you can't lengthen then easily. If you get the sleeve length right then the body length will be OK, so the only tailoring (if needed) would be in jacket width. Sounds logical to me!

I must admit to being unsure about waist sizes since BD trousers are so high waisted I don't know which bit they measure to get their sizes! Again, simple just to ask them.

I'm completely average in sizing and if I could be bothered to tailor my jacket then I'd shorten the cuff by half an inch and let out the cuff buttons a bit - but maybe I'm not as average as I think and have short arms and fat wrists! Heh, chaps in the day put up with sizes they were issued with, its not a Saville Row suit.

SOF are very honest in that they state there sizig is *not* the same as wartime BD sizes as mens body shapes have changed in the last 60 years.

They tend to be longer in the body and in the arm of the blouse.

Speak to Alun atSOF , hes a really good bloke and will help you out

WPG do stock long sizes of jacket. But I'd say if you are ordering from SoF then give them your sizes and ask for their advice. I guess sleeve length would be the most critical since you can't lengthen then easily. If you get the sleeve length right then the body length will be OK, so the only tailoring (if needed) would be in jacket width. Sounds logical to me!

I must admit to being unsure about waist sizes since BD trousers are so high waisted I don't know which bit they measure to get their sizes! Again, simple just to ask them.

I'm completely average in sizing and if I could be bothered to tailor my jacket then I'd shorten the cuff by half an inch and let out the cuff buttons a bit - but maybe I'm not as average as I think and have short arms and fat wrists! Heh, chaps in the day put up with sizes they were issued with, its not a Saville Row suit.

always my problem, i have long arms, short torsoe, if it fits in the body, the sleeves are too short. if the sleeves fit, the body is too big.
i have to have it tailored. thats life..

glad to help.

Were personal modifications allowed or no-go for paras? The adition of extra poppers for the beaver tail for example?

Rare but not unheard off.

Anypermanent alteration to kit would see you breaching KRs as 'willful damage to crown property' or some such unless it was decreed at a unit level in company or battalion orders to make such a mod.

Paras needed the tail for the jump so tended to leave it on, when you're in combat 10 inches of cloth hanging of the back of your jacket is the least of your worries. Airlanding units tended to cut it off as it was surplus to requirements.

You do see it stitched up or safety pinned up but i dont think i've ever seen a wartime one with extra poppers put in, thats a second pattern feature.

Things i have seen is extra pockets sewn onto denisons, poachers pockets put in properly inside and knitted cuffs (or sock tops) sewn into the sleeves of second pattern.

If you just want it out the way for airsofting stitch it up or pin it up, you then avoid making the smock less sellabel at a later date. If you're not that fussed about its resale value cut it off.

I've got a pretty expensive K&C one so there is no way I'm butcherig it so mines tack stitched up at the moment.